PGY 161L - The Rolling Restoration

[Tony Hayward]

Derek
The engine mounts I use can be viewed here: http://www.farrat.com/rem_mounts.html
The original equipment Jaguar E type mounts are designed to be used at an angle either side of the engine, working in shear. In the Gilbern they are used as feet, therefore in tension. Once you increase the horsepower, or more importantly, the torque, the bonding can fail very quickly. The nearside particularly, due to torque reaction.
I strongly advise the use of mounts as sold by Farrat (and others); they work in shear and will last forever.

Tony

[Reddi-Eng]

Tony, I appreciate your comments and advice reference better mounts and had I not got the original fit ones already I would take the advice. At this stage I’m of a mind to stick with what I have got on the basis that usage of the car will be limited this year and I not planing any high-powered driving. So I’ll keep an eye on them and at any sign of damage I’ll look to getting the Farrat ones. After all refitting them a second time should be a lot easier.

I’m sure the advice will not be lost on any other members working on 3ltr restorations. (Paul, is this worth documenting in Rarebits for the benefit of others?)

Thanks again.

[Reddi-Eng]

Saturday 14th February 2009

Well another frustrating few hours under the front of PGY 161L

The remains of the near-side rear engine mounting remain stubbornly fixed in place. Plan B of using a Stilson wrench and a variety of other devices to clamp the remains of the mount proved unsuccessful. One of the main problems being the force required to hold the wrench in place and turn the socket wrench is just not possible with two hand lying on your back under the car. Leaving the stilson wrench to lock itself in place does not work because the crossmember slopes upwards and the wrench slides off. Plan C is to get a set of the extractors Mike has recommended. (Plan D is back to drilling off the bolt head).

The ARB bush replacement is equally slow. Removal of the off-side drop link was not too difficult and inspection of the central bushes showed these are in good condition and possible do not need replacing (Incidentally these are split so do just slide over the bar)

So dismantling the ARB is complete all I need to do is fit the new drop links. OK sound easy, but I have one simple question. Even with some proper rudder lubricant what is the secret method of getting the rubber bushes through the links? I've tried the obvious like pushing, pulling and squeezing but without success. I did not want to damage the rubbers so I though to seek advice.

So you wise old Gilbern types, how do you do it How do you get the rubbers trhough the holes

[Greybags]

I usually use a pan of hot water and a length of threaded rod, 2 nuts, and a couple of 2" square metal plates with holes in the middle ..

Drop the rubber bush in the pan of hot water to make it a lot more pliable than normal, smear of rubber grease on the inside of the housing, feed the bar through the bush and housing then plates and nuts and slowly do them up, and with a bit of fiddling, this will normally pull the bush in about 80% of the way ...

Finish off with a couple of sockets, a small one on the pushing side and a large one on the coming through side, then a quick wind in the vice.

Found this way in a book many years ago and although not perhaps the most elegant, but seems to work and have rebushed many cars with this method, without drawing blood, even works with poly bushes as well.

Hope this helps and best of luck with getting out the old mounts ... any chance of getting a bit of heat on the offending item, as that will often loosen it up.

I have occasionally used a long chisel and an even bigger hammer to shock a bolt to get it moving.

I have not had to change the mounts as yet, sunds like a job to look forward too...

Grahame

[Gilbern74]

Hey Derek,
Grahame is right about the hot water. Its the method I always use. I did a post on it in my restoration story (although I was using poly bushes, same method applies for rubber).

I found a good matching sized socket helps as a dowel to push the bushes through.

[Reddi-Eng]

Tuesday 17th February 2009

I thought with the the last two posts I would be able to get these bushes fitted but once again I don't seem to be getting anywhere near it. The two pictures below show what I'm attempting. Is this right? The ARB is still on the car but I don't see any point in taking it off completely unless that's the only way. I will then also have to remove the links on the front suspension to do those anyway which is more work.



Basically I've got one of the old drop link bolts, suitablly spacered out on the side feeding the bush in and an old socket on the exit side. Rubber bushes have been in boiling water for 5 minutes and everything is lubbricated with a silcone oil. Tightening up the nut just seem to splay out the bush. I've even had a couple of jublilee clips on the bush to try and confine it. I don't see what else I should be doing.

One question I have got is are all these bushes the same size. I have discovered that my ARB is thin, about 15mm, whereas the central bushes I have are for an 18mm bar. Are there similar size differences for these drop link bushes? In which case that may be my problem. (Rogerspares - do you know if there are different size drop link bushes?)

This is getting a bit annoying now so please keep the advice and suggestions comming

[Tony Hayward]

Derek
the drop link bushes are all the same. The anti roll bars vary in thickness, obviously thicker bars are stiffer (I use a 22mm bar, custom made with rose joints).
It's a long time since I fitted rubber bushes, I seem to remember use a blunt tool to persuade the bush to start going through the eye, whilst keeping pressure on it.

Tony

[Reddi-Eng]

Wednesday 18th February 2009

Cracked it, I can fit an ARB drop link bush in about 10 minutes now

How?, well after thinking about the problem I sketched out a tool to help and handed over the following sketch to my Toolmaker Son at 7:30 this morning.



After a couple of phone calls for clarrification he handed back the tool below at 1:00 pm today.
It's basically a metal cylinder with a hole halfway through the nominal diameter of the bush with the hole tapering down to the diameter of the hole through the link. One end is also chamfered to help it seat in the hole on the link. The whole thing is also split into two along its axis. A second smaller cylinder has an o/d equal to the bush diameter and is the same length as the bush.

The whole in the smaller piece allow a short length of allthread to locate this "Pusher" onto the bush. (Incidently I think trying to put a bar right through to pull the bush through is a mistake because it is this which prevents the bush compressing enough to go through the hole in the lnk.)

An exhaust clamp is used to clamp the two halves together.



So the process is now......

Heat the bush in boiling water and lubricate the two halves of the tool with vasaline.

Put the bush in the tool so it engages with the tapered end.

Clamp the tool together.



Using a bench vice force the bush down the tapered bore until the bush just starts to emerge out of the end. This helps locate the unit in the link hole.



Tranfer to car, locate protrubing bush one side, and with a socket the other for clearance, use a G clamp to squeeze the bush out of the tool and through the hole in the link.



Remove the G Clamp



Remove the exhaust clamp and split the tool to get it off the bush.

Finished bush in place



I feel like the cat that got the cream!

Hope removal of the engine mounts is his easy when I get the tools Mike recommended.

ARB bush fitting tool avalable at modest rates

[kyalamijoe]

Sounds too good to be true. Easy or what. Next stop Machine Mart or Patents office?

[Greybags]

All this just goes to prove the old adage .. "Necessity is the mother of all invention"

Nice one Derek

Now how about producing a set of varying diameters to do various other sizes of bushes, would be a surefire winner in the trade.

Did I here someone mention Dragon's and Dens

Grahame...

[Reddi-Eng]

No, 'er indoors had nothing to do with it

[trippdl]

Boy, I like this tool!

If you want to be a real hero, get the toolmaker son to do another one, and send it to Roger Spares, so that it can be lent out to the rest of us !

And, after that, I'd like the toolmaker son to make up a tool for removing and replacing the trailing arm bushes...

[Tony Hayward]

Mk3 trailing arm bushes.

Dave
Burn them out, then saw through the outer sleeve. New ones can be pressed in with a vise.

Tony

[Reddi-Eng]

Saturday 21st February 2009

Progress today has included re-assembly of the ARB which went back together with no problems.

Yesterday I receiced the Damaged Nut removers recommended by Mike W so I thought I tackle the engine mounts. The largest item in the kit is a 10mm unit and this would be ideal if access was better. It just started on the remains of the mounting but the sump/Oil Filter and other chassis bits make it difficult to "Hammer on" as recommended. After several failed atempts to get it seated enough to stop it just slipping off I thought plan C of drilling out the bolt was favourite. I did start but hardly scratched the surface wih a pilot drill so thought one last atempt with the nut remover.

This time the trusty G cramp, used to great efect on the ARD bush fitting, was bought in and the nut remover squashed on. I then raided my "Old Tools" box and found and old socket with a hex bar driver which fiited well and locked the nut remover to the sub-frame so I did not have to hold it. Now with some straining the bolt eventualy came lose (So that's a pint I owe you Mike).

Interestingly when I came to refit the bracket with the new mount I had to jack the engine up another couple on cm's, shows how much the old ones had colapsed.

I took one look a the off-side one and realised this one is very close to the end of the steering column where the uj joins the rack. So with the evening meal just 1/2 hour away I thought I'd save that pleasure for another day.

Still great satisfaction with the progress made today which was a reminder of why I like classic cars. Its so nice to forget all the other things going on in life and loose yourself in the garage for a couple of hours

[mike whiskey]

Pleased to hear you had a success.

Will collect on thatoffer at National day if you are there, and perhaps buy you some for sharing your progress here.

Once I get settled from the move (how long will i be saying that?!) I will have to make some progress on NNY, but vicarious progress is good too!

MW